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Author Topic: Mk2 golf VW Custom Suspension Uprights hubs Motorsport design  (Read 4610 times)

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Offline Tim Moll

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2013, 09:09:03 am »
Ya know what they say Tom......

Great minds think alike......fools seldom differ  ;D

Offline Smudge

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2013, 12:20:44 pm »
Here is a quick drawing of Mk2 Golf and MK3 golf wishbones to illustrate the track and camber increase. Note, the MK3 item has a modified LBJ position to fit my upright design and the shapes of the wishbones are not accurate but are for illustration only, the LBJ, fixing bolt holes, front bush and rear bush are accurate.

See my MK2 Golf 16v in the members section.


Offline sparrow

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2013, 02:19:18 pm »
Feck me, there are some clever people on this thread!! Awesome work guys.
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Offline RobT

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2013, 05:42:08 pm »
I do like the shaved down Mk2 upright Tom, with the laser cut mounting boss. Good work sir  ;D
2008 Audi A6 2.0TDI S-Line
2004 Audi A4 Avant 1.8T Quattro S-Line
1996 Seat Ibiza 16V F1.5 Race car

Offline RobT

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2013, 05:50:57 pm »
2008 Audi A6 2.0TDI S-Line
2004 Audi A4 Avant 1.8T Quattro S-Line
1996 Seat Ibiza 16V F1.5 Race car

Offline Smudge

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2013, 06:36:55 pm »
Thanks for the comments , I have been working on the idea for a while now and the threads not up to date, as per your picture Rob I have been looking into double shear for the ball joints and Tim, today I have investigated bump steer and looked at the affects ball joint extenders have, I will post the information up in due course, it makes for very interesting reading.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 10:15:35 am by Smudge »
See my MK2 Golf 16v in the members section.


Offline RobT

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2008 Audi A6 2.0TDI S-Line
2004 Audi A4 Avant 1.8T Quattro S-Line
1996 Seat Ibiza 16V F1.5 Race car

Offline Tim Moll

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2013, 11:49:12 pm »
Good find Rob and very interesting  ;)

I'm wondering if we may be able to combine the bearing housings that Tom has drawn up and get Daligh to cast some carriers for different platforms?  ;D

Offline RobT

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2013, 08:21:42 am »
I reckon billet ali is the way to go for these items
2008 Audi A6 2.0TDI S-Line
2004 Audi A4 Avant 1.8T Quattro S-Line
1996 Seat Ibiza 16V F1.5 Race car

Offline Tim Moll

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2013, 01:27:32 pm »
No doubt billet would look nicer Rob, but from a cost perspective cast has got to be significantly cheaper I would think?

Offline sparrow

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2013, 05:30:37 pm »
The guy on the link Rob posted above (can't quote unfortunately) was on ClubGTi. He seems to have gone very quiet unfortunately.
He had the CAD diagrams of off the Mk3 Frazero car as well, which is where I was going to get my solid rack mount from. He also has diagrams for solid front cross member bushes, solid rear axle mounts, and a few others as well.
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Offline Smudge

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2013, 07:50:21 pm »
The Frazero golf ones are lovely, but they are just not worth the cost IMO. With my idea, I will be able to mimic the geometry of them (if I wanted those settings or even new what they are to mimic) for a fraction of the cost. I would guess my design will be heavier and possibly not as strong but I could beef mine up to make them as strong.

As for the cast idea, there will be costs involved and you would have to contract out to someone who has the skills and facilities to cast it (luckily for me I can do all the work on my idea myself and I have had to adapt it at times already to fit the equipment I have to keep costs down which would result from outsourcing to contractors).

The thing with billet is you can buy it in forms such as T6, this is where it's been heat treated which does increase the strength. I would guess applying a heat treatment to a cast item would cost a fair amount, something to consider, I would imagine Brian G would be the man to offer advice about casting, after all, he does plenty of his own.  :)

« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 05:38:04 pm by Smudge »
See my MK2 Golf 16v in the members section.


Offline Smudge

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2014, 05:52:42 pm »
I have been looking at other aspects of the geometry, now that most of the key geo has been defined and set I could work out the affects this would have to Ackerman and after adjusting this I set about testing and adjusting the bump steer.




I drew a basic but accurate sketch of the front profile of a wishbone and the steering rack, I then could test out the affects of bump by changing the 'height' the steering tie rod is in relation to the centre of the LBJ. I have altered the 'length' the steering arm protrudes from the LBJ where the upright pivots. (Note this affects bump steer and Ackerman rendering my figures useless on a std setup) the reason for this is to increase steering response and hopefully reduce the rack ratio from 3.17 to less than 2.9 - as per a Quaife quick rack.



I have been calculating the bump steer in excel by taking measurements from CAD and then imputing it into a graph so that it is clear to see the affects.

Firstly, this graph is of the distance in mm in which the steering arm moves under compression of the suspension (bump).



The next graph which is more informative has the distance (in mm) of the above graph, calculated using trigonometry, to give bump steer in degrees. I am not fully decided on which graph (measurement) to use in my setup, but I'm swaying towards the red line becuase it has minimal bump steer for toe in or toe out, also once compressed (mid corner) the setup will then swing into toe out which might help reduce under steer. Opinions greatly received.


 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 10:39:27 am by Smudge »
See my MK2 Golf 16v in the members section.


Offline Tonyb

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2014, 06:34:25 pm »
Looks like good info to me Tom. I'm going to revisit the front end of the Tatty Golf before long and check some things out and I'm sure this will be useful. Thanks

Offline Smudge

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Re: Custom Suspension Uprights
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2014, 10:44:59 am »
Thanks Tony, unfortunately none of this is relevant to the std setup because of all the changes in geometry I have been making, its quite bespoke, but all setups that deviate from std will need to be measured and adjusted accordingly! Ie if you lower the car, add ball joint extenders etc you are going to have a bespoke setup anyway. I do have some std MK2 data and I could sketch up some bits and bobs if you are desperate.

I have noted that 5mm difference in height from the ideal position for the steering tie rod has resulted in nearly 1mm of bump steer, ie the wheels turn by nearly 0.5 degrees. (that's almost 1 degree collective!) getting the tie rod end position correct relative to the LBJ, and other geometry is imperative to minimising bump steer. Don't just go slapping on ball joint extenders and generic bump steer correction kit, measure it all up and see how things move.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 11:11:11 am by Smudge »
See my MK2 Golf 16v in the members section.


 

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