Jason Moyle Racing
General Category => INDUCTION => Topic started by: Smudge on September 10, 2013, 08:15:04 pm
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Hello all, I thought you may be interested to see my recent work on my inlet manifold, it has now been fully tested on track and with Jason on the rollers and has proved on my mild engine setup to be quite effective after it replaced the home brew ITB setup.
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I set about buying some parts to use. The inlet track on the manifold needs a curve so that the plenum fits under the bonnet, the KR 42mm inlet is perfect for this job, it has the correct bore runners and the curve is perfect. In the vice, I cut it down with a hacksaw.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/0A2B72C0-3E6F-475E-BBA5-A7680CCAC40A-3245-000008FEC3CC513B.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/D6412087-94CC-4111-A669-53FD082F4ABC-3245-000008FED9FA2E03.jpg)
For the flange that bolts onto the head I used the lower section of the same manifold and cut it down, then milled it flat.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/C01E17BF-6F1D-4A15-87DA-47A1C48C9014-3245-000008FEF39BE4C3.jpg)
I also reclaimed the flange of the other end and will be using this too. Here are the basic components ready for fabrication.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/DAA66EC0-6716-4E60-8FBA-AD2C94F4B389-3245-000008FEEE83FB1D.jpg)
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To mate the runners to the head flange requires the ends of the runners to be oval. I achieved this by squashing them in a vice.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/C768984B-B206-4B57-8AAB-4787D78B20B6-3245-000008FEF8C105EF.jpg)
I chamfered of the edges so that I got better penetration when welding and tacked into place.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/C628115B-6CD2-4F08-99FC-9961F372AAF1-3245-000008FEFDD794C3.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/4AC49A12-B3DD-4A67-B17E-64CD2070202D-3968-00000C7324248E4A.jpg)
After tacking into place I test fitted onto the car.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/DF12AF32-26E9-485C-A804-973F67BC225D-3245-000008FF02B6520C.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/54364107-8C13-47AE-AE79-DBAA39CB1501-3245-000008FF100BFED4.jpg)
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Nice work!
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Keep em coming Tom... ;)
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After tacking in place you can see the step here that needs blending out, it's only small and to the sides only. At the point where the runners join they slightly squash in (to avoid spark plugs in OEM application) so I also built this up with weld.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/D98D18A7-6847-4370-98F8-687F69C045C8-3968-00000C72D064004A.jpg)
To keep the wall thickness the same at the blend point I welded on extra material.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/4AC49A12-B3DD-4A67-B17E-64CD2070202D-3968-00000C7324248E4A.jpg)
And then ground it all back.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/8103D73F-B168-46A7-BFCE-556181E81507-3968-00000C72D745311E.jpg)
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Nice use of std parts Tom. Be interesting to see how it flows when it's done. What are you bolting on to them? be nice to use 8 injectors with the bottom injector holes still in the head end.
I looked at using an 8v OEM manifold once for injection but that is a tricky beast, especially if you havn't got the kit to weld aluminium.
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Hi Tony
It's actually finished and has been on the car for a while now, it would be great to measure the flow and I might have to post it down to JMR over the winter months to find out. The aim when building it was to keep the peak flow as close to my ITBs as possible, but I'm sure having a plenum will be a factor.
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To finish off the inlet track I bought some spun ram pipes and welded them to the flange, I had to keep the back plate in place as I did this, it was tricky to say he least!
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/9F1C568E-AFE6-4A11-AE6C-B221D88AFE3A-3245-000008FEE87EA353.jpg)
Once tacked into place it was again tested on the car for fitment before welding fully.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/A17BD654-9ACB-43D3-8DBE-C5ADE6A884E1-3968-00000C7337137921.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/D9D9E062-001B-4DF1-B535-96D5B714B70C-3968-00000C733CF238F1.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/137566A5-ABF8-4EA5-9CA5-9058248BB55C-3968-00000C72F35F2AC4.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/9FCDDF9A-08AD-4EFE-925F-E7094505090E-3968-00000C730FC5F9AB.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/EECD9B69-2A12-46F3-A02F-E5005BCC8C09-3968-00000C730A0E4B9D.jpg)
Where the ram pipes join the flange some blending is required. There is plenty of meet on the flange to allow this.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/72EA5017-89CC-4AD5-AEAB-3A9143344A95-3968-00000B365D622C6D.jpg)
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Confident the inlet would fit after testing I set about fabricating the plenum chamber.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/8ECC5685-7678-46E9-94CA-D086304718E7-3968-00000C7471B4AEA1.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/909D58C0-6B01-4362-BB22-DEF0817496A6-3968-00000C747959092C.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/9C2177B0-9661-424E-9CA3-FD1897F69511-3968-00000C7364D6641B.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/A1E63E28-ACC2-46D6-BE30-AEC90C43938D-3968-00000DCA98EC55E7.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/07309DA7-9A76-453B-99C0-C8740070ED07-3968-00000DCAA061119C.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/D6832324-971E-4E9A-B833-4ED04E204F03-3968-00000DCAA54DF068.jpg)
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After a bit of measuring up I started to cut the and weld the sides.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/1B1D4718-BC25-4BF6-9984-97234528C664-3968-00000DCAA9D62C3C.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/DAC2280C-D666-4529-A2E6-790353ABCAC0-3968-00000DCABCB61607.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/CB690FF0-D23B-4649-A526-BCB87F3B5FF4-3968-00000DCAB3107092.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/5E6627D8-9F20-4205-847F-1866A1249596-3968-00000DCAC5848948.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/19E34D5B-950B-4553-BC35-B5B7DE3348C6-3968-00000DCAD5F97783.jpg)
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Great fabrication there Tom...I know who to come to if I need any ally fab work done ;)
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Thanks Tim.
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I welded the joints on the inside as well and then ground them away to give the smoothest finish I could acheive. Here you can see the process in action, roughly sanded with a finger sander - best bit of kit in the world when welding and cleaning things up etc.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/025A1589-A760-41B6-8852-E0B9A57228A0-3968-00000DCAAE5A2CAD.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/cc291f39c35b4d13acaa86f20486bc41.jpg)
The front part was the most complex, I made a card template first, the cut the sheet Ali, then annealed it and then rolled it to shape.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/3C970651-5FB1-424E-8C7B-FD3D913916B3-3968-00000DCADFD49357.jpg)
The end dome was made up of many pieces, the weld was built up on the inside and then ground away to give a smooth transitional finish, the outside is still squared, here I blasted over the welds to reduce them in hight so that it was to ground off, looks messy but was worth it.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/9b3a355af51d2c0ee36b787144f06b1d.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/0c66cc8f001a606a578bc39e81e7f11e.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/cf8df89bc89483a127e2bf8f1cf85175.jpg)
You can see the weld being built up and blasted smooth.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/DF71DCEB-05BE-419D-AF0B-EBDFB80C4965-381-0000010A2020B76A.jpg)
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I blended the joint between the bell mouths and the flange then hand sanded throught to grade 1200.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/1DDF5ACF-FC83-4903-9383-42996DF280C7-381-00000109F92E31B9.jpg)
The full inlet track getting there.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/56A1ED2C-817B-401B-B4CA-D196F08A5B96-381-0000010A050DCD85.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/86D229C0-42CE-4ADB-B250-DE25D5524858-381-0000010A10D215F2.jpg)
The end dome roughly sanded ready to be joined.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/cf8df89bc89483a127e2bf8f1cf85175.jpg)
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Great fabrication skills Tom 8)
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Thanks Tim :D
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He's not half bad Tim!....
Top job Tom.. 8)
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The plenum is now sanded and cleaned ready for welding to the back plate.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/7E027E7B-C895-4C59-9750-DC593740B7B6-381-0000010A3D078C92.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/F64B9C3F-227A-47A5-AE22-891676E88F5F-381-0000010A459079CA.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/75388919-5FC3-4FA9-B663-470246D049CE-381-0000010A4E5E5711.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/FF0D6772-A382-409F-A631-6F7E938F6443-381-0000010A57A61415.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/998B7B4A-5EA2-4869-B046-0CA9F6F6FB00-381-0000010A5F401592.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/28F936C0-DB7D-4E2E-9650-F485639362ED-381-0000010A66D512E3.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/218212F9-87BD-4775-839C-D9F0A87395B6-381-0000010A6F6CE75D.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/8901461F-DDCC-4A10-89B8-EDB9EF050564-381-0000010A7C068010.jpg)
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He's not half bad Tim!....
Top job Tom.. 8)
Cheers Jason!
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He's not half bad Tim!....
Top job Tom.. 8)
Praise indeed :o
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Before I welded the plenum onto the runners I tested it on the car, at the same time I measured up the throttle body position.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/F1CAA69E-DF7E-489A-9272-76E590BD0D94-381-0000010A86199B22.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/3EE451DC-9DB1-4B1C-9027-2E95658CF398-381-0000010A8C0592B3.jpg)
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Lovely job tom. What butterly are you going to use?
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Thanks Rob, I am using an ABF butterfly.
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Cool. nicely done.
Lots of work there Tom! I do lots of similar welding/sanding/smoothing for artists, so appreciate the hours of work involved!
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Thanks Sam, it has taken a few hours to get to this stage, mostly done at work after hours and has been excellent training for me whilst I learn to TIG weld.
What medium do you use for the sculptures?
Are any aluminium? It's surprisingly easy to grind/sand ali when using a finger sander! Must be the best buy I have made and can clean up old joints and old Ali in seconds, it does eat belts at times but on trade at screw fix they are really cheap.
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I do alot of aluminium now. I only improved when I started putting the hours in. I have to grind and finish most of my welds, but I am able to lay some nice beads now, after 3 years! Ha.
I am hopeless on the mill though!
Oval Aluminium lightbox frame, 4mm front, 2mm sides:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/samfishy/DSC_0210.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/samfishy/media/DSC_0210.jpg.html)
These are a bit crazy, lasercut from 2.5mm and welded together. They are really tricky, as the weld needs to be built up to a sharp point, and you cannot burn through because the back is visible when finished.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/samfishy/IMAG0443.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/samfishy/media/IMAG0443.jpg.html)
Sorry to hijack with some pictures. I do enjoy seeing nice metalwork though Tom, so keep us updated!
Those belts can be pricey. But then so are flap discs and other consumables :(
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No worry about any hijacks here, I'm just like you in that I love to see good metal work and skill too.
Lovely work on those pieces, I know how tricky it can be and how deceptive a picture can be to the skill and time it all requires. One of the hardest things I find is setting the work up and getting it stable for welding, I imagine the above you have shown is difficult! Sometimes the only way is to stand to get the position for the weld, which then makes things very interesting!
Maybe we should get a metal working thread up to share any work you want too, I have some interesting projects not car related that could go up. :)
I love the mill but never really get chance to do much work on it, just little bits here and there, I don't have the time or projects to really push my skills ATM, and the mill at work is pretty basic and not up to big jobs really.
This is my latest work on the mill, a solid steering rack mount for the mk2. I will pop a thread up about soon.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/3BBD945E-94FA-4115-8FDB-9A16B685D899-318-000000F1DC715BD1_zpsb275f5a8.jpg)
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Cool!
Yeah, a metalwork thread is overdue! I imagine a few people have some skills to share.
Jason, you must be pretty handy with a pencil grinder and the like ;D
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I wish I still had access to a mill and lathe :'(
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I wish I still had access to a mill and lathe :'(
I know how you feel, but while I have access I'm going to make the most of it!
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Wow, wow, and wow again. Never knew you were a man of these Skills. Intake a great idea and super cool. Its given me the kick to start work again on my own manifold(which Ill need a test mule car for and a rr, anyone ;))
Its variable geometry...
Anyway, enough hogging, super thread Smudge, I missed threads like this.
Brian,
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I've seen it up close Brian...it's it's better than very very good!...
We can maybe look at a fabrication section....anyone wanna float some heading idea's around feel free...something catchy...metal art?...metal magic?...some non car structure's could inspire some car idea's, or fabricated parts from one area could trigger inspiration in others.
Sorry Tom we'll clean this up later! ;D
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Brian thank you very much, it means a lot coming from yourself, who is the master of fabrication and design ;D
The idea of a variable intake is great, just what the manufactures are doing and would be an excellent asset if the lengths are tuned for the mid and high rev ranges! (Assuming you will shorten the inlet track by maybe diverting with a butterfly, or are you talking moving trumpets?)
Look forward to you future plans with great interest. Cannot wait to see you continue your work with the head!
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Hey Jason, thanks for the kind words too, don't worry about the banter on here, seems that having it can already help to inspire others and seeing Sams work has made me want to get out there and do more with metal!
I also work in wood and plastics and just enjoy making and fabricating. If its just a metal only section I'm happy with that, but it would be good if I could post up the odd wood or plastic job that might be interesting to others ::)
'The Fabrication Forum' sounds good.
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I then welded and a TB flange added, the std 8v throttle cable is not long enough, therefore an extension needed to be added and the cables needed to be joined, tabs were welded on for the cable ends.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/1D07C3CE-4CCD-40A9-8223-FD015D05F9BE-381-0000010A9298C0E0.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/4CF278CE-6F9E-4C7D-8FD6-D22D07AADACB-381-0000010A975A91B0.jpg)
I thought for the throttle link, 3 grub screws per cable would be sufficient.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/D2C4F272-1A45-4EF9-96BD-63BE7B928247-381-0000010A9D494A55.jpg)
Fuel rail tabs welded on this is now ready to go.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/d7c570fb21038a85a3a6b4185bb9da82.jpg)
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I tested the manifold, car started easily, after she warmed up I adjusted the idle screw and played with the idle settings, got her very smooth quickly. Took her for an hours drive, the wife came along and mapped the car for me (told what adjustments to make) she really does enjoy tweaking maps and is very good at it to, car now mapped to run healthy AFRs all the way to 4000rpm and it pulled cleanly on WOT. Over 4000rpm it was producing healthy AFRs so I have not altered them yet.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/8AFA180A-239D-4C87-96B8-242258459C2A-381-0000010AA335212A.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/8B892BE6-6F33-40A8-A317-D267D4B2B9A9-381-0000010AAB0BCFF7.jpg)
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Great `team` effort there ;D
Are you off to the `rollers` at some point ?
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Great `team` effort there ;D
Are you off to the `rollers` at some point ?
Yep, I have actually been and done it, will post up soon.
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Thank you ... `just reward` I`m sure :)
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Great thread with nice detail (and of course great fabrication and planning). I must pull my finger out and do some bits myself!
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seeing this makes me wish i have continued with my manifold, nice work
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Hey Alan, nice to hear from you, do you still have the Mk2? If so you could always carry on the plenum project...
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You`ve had it on the Dyno ? And you haven` shown us the graph ! :o
;D
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He's new to all this Nige! ::) :-X
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New to what :D
The results might not be what everyone wants to hear!
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oh-oh , sounds ominous!
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We`re interested regardless... ;)
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I will pop something up in due cause.
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I very quickly knocked out an airbox to shroud the air filter. It's is a bit rough and ready but it will hopefully do the job. Made a template out of card, this bit took the longest!
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/25B63AC3-98B9-414A-91BF-43E03F428602-1323-0000022816AAA571.jpg)
I used .9mm Ali sheet and quickly cut it to size on the band saw. (please excuse the poor marking out, I was in a hurry).
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/7E013396-2C4B-425B-BEC1-8A2A26327A77-1323-000002281DF39239.jpg)
I braced a couple of the joining areas with 3mm Ali. The extra piece sits behind the grille/bumper and directs the air flow to the filter.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/69C7CEB8-A1CB-4C52-8A94-5E81DF455E80-1323-0000022824DDE025.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/4EAE31C6-C135-494D-B74A-F461E0EC5A9F-1323-0000022842C812B2.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/FC01577C-250E-43C6-B290-36347425C8EB-1323-000002283E3A114E.jpg)
Lid on, I sealed the edges in with an old bike inner tube, looks a bit rough but hopefully it will work for the time being and I will remake it later on.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/146F3FDC-2CE4-4B75-8787-0D44132E90F7-1323-0000022848C71BF0.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/B7E53807-A112-4374-8EB0-C85B57EB0881-1323-00000228511B5354.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/5F8FED44-1479-4F47-B7C3-1DA509A4A1A2-1323-00000228567B513C.jpg)
Inside the air filter I created a bell mouth be turning a piece of billet on the lathe with an agle of 10 degrees and then I rounded of the edge with a radius tool, the other end I welded on a short piece of 3" flared tube. I also cut part of the flare off and smoothed the transition out.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/E93173A8-E7B9-4E6D-B137-5CC0C4E6FFE6-1323-000002282AC60AF7.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/FCDC3647-AEE5-45D7-AC3D-14E501BCA3AE-1323-00000228304358C3.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/0F5A5487-90DC-47AF-8C23-9B7BF4C020CE-1323-00000228350900D4.jpg)
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Nice work. What calculations did you do around Plenum volume. What runner length did you go for in the end? Might be in the earlier posts but I didn't spot it.
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I have not given away any of the calculations yet, the inlet track length is almost the same as my ITB's setup for comparison.
If anyone is interested in the dimensions I could pop them up.
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A short evaluation of the manifold.
I have used a new rolling road this time to get it calibrated, therefore, it is not wise or even fair to compare the figures, especially considering that there was a large difference in the peak values from previous best results.
I was expecting, if tested on the same rolling road the inlet plenum would lose me maybe around 10bhp peak (complete guess but a figure i would be happy with looking at OEM plemums, the hope would be this plenum flows better at the higher rpm) from the best my ITBs had given me in the past and I would be happy with that. What it has potentially lost me in BHP may only be realised if I return the original rolling road.
Therefore to draw any comparisons about my manifold, to my ITB setup, I'm using track times and seat dyno.
Things to note, the last time my car was running the ITBs on the same rolling road/cal/engine it was down on power last year by around 20bhp, from 187bhp to 166bhp, I have still have not worked out what the reason could have been... the crank sensor timing was only a couple of degrees out measured at around 25 degrees before TDC (at moderate revs) it was a new trigger wheel and timing was at the time suggested as the cause.
Anyway, the last result the ITBs made around 166bhp flywheel on the old dyno and with that tune I went to Goodwood and Curby. I then went back to both tracks with the plenum and took timings.
So, at Goodwood peak top speed with new plenum was 119mph, the old ITB setup was slightly lower than this. The plenum felt every bit as fast and reduced the induction noise. Happy with that because reducing noise was my primary aim whilst maintaining as much go (as possible) as the ITBs had.
At two separate Curby events with the ITBs my car did a 29:60 and 29:44. (same settings but different temperature days). Fairly close.
With the new plenum at Curby my car did a 29:17.
The seat dyno after Curby said it felt faster on the short track, at Curby it was much easier to break traction with the plenum when getting on the power. It required a much more controlled driver compared to the ITBs. (this took some getting used too on cold tyres).
Inbetween all these events all I changed (including geo to tyres etc ) was the plenum and I removed 7kg from changing my bonnet to a GRP item.
Overall I feel the engine is more grunty than the 166bhp ITB setup and the Curby time and Goodwood speeds confirms it for me (I also surprised a few other drivers who noted the golf goes well). The plenum does pull the car around a track better than the ITBs in their last state of tune.
The figures from the new rolling road are 'only 136bhp est at the wheels (162 est fly) but this figure has pulled the car around tracks faster than the 166bhp from the other rolling road.
Peak BHP/torque from ITB plot and Plenum plot on different rolling roads is, I feel, about all that could usefully be compared. It shows that the plenum was breathing well and not being restrictive at the higher RPM range when compared to the ITBs, which is a good thing and goes some way to say the plenum could flow well and could handle more BHP if the rest of the engine was built to breath.
ITB peak BHP 6900rpm LBFT 5000rpm ATflywheel
plenum peak BHP 7000rpm LBFT 4500rpm ATW (at 5000rpm there was a slight dip in the curve which may be able to be mapped out.)
In the future I am hoping to test the plenum in a different way to gauge where its potential performance might become restrictive.
One thing I have learnt from this exercise is that I will only ever use rolling roads that give out wheel horse power figures.
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Difficult comparing results from different days, but if the trend is consistent then it should be right that the new setup is quicker in the real world.
I struggle to believe it's only got 136 bhp at the flywheel, as that's less than a stock engine. Did you mean at the wheels? Having said that, the peak torque does look a bit low for a 16v. Is it still running on std cams and head?
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Difficult comparing results from different days, but if the trend is consistent then it should be right that the new setup is quicker in the real world.
I struggle to believe it's only got 136 bhp at the flywheel, as that's less than a stock engine. Did you mean at the wheels? Having said that, the peak torque does look a bit low for a 16v. Is it still running on std cams and head?
I made an error, it should have been 136bhp at the wheels not the flywheel, est flywheel 162bhp. You were dead right to question it, I'm not that interested in the Dyno figures, unless they are completed on the same Dyno , hence my move toward track timess, and I was impressed with the times it pulled : ) so whatever the figures were I was still happy, makes more sense that it was wheel hp because that comes closer to what the times suggest.
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That's a bit more like it….
TBH I think you're right about different dynos. Obviously there are a lot of factors that influence the lap time, but ultimately cutting that down is the goal. Peak torque still looks a bit low in the rev range. There's more speed to be had if you can get it to hang onto the torques for a bit longer.
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Agreed about the torque, it's not dropping of at 4500rpm it just does not get any higher, the ITBs it did keep rising, it does hold on until much higher rpm like the ITBs did.
I will pop a picture of the plot up to illustrate the profiles.
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(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/1c2723bceea8501f9e8134b906fa49b7.jpg)
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After my last track day I noticed a very slight crack in the paint on runner one. All the others were fine, when pushing down hard on the manifold with the engine running no extra air was was being let in because the revs did not rise. After parking the car up for the winter I set about stripping the manifold off to investigate further a develop the design.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/370F402E-6C7D-4D49-B4A6-08E0A1567619-1467-0000031F5B210B92_zpscc6e39a7.jpg)
The crack was along the join between the flange and the runners, it must be a combination of leverage, harmonics and the fact I gound the welds down weakening them. To put it right I firstly cut a 1mm groove into the manifold across the join and then I welded with a thick filler rod and plenty go heat. This time I will leave the weld alone and not grind it flat.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/EE47FDFC-DF57-45AF-9FA6-6A743EFA0980-1467-0000031F637FD08A_zps93898724.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/E6603F57-FE8E-4122-BF32-FA604E2EC77F-1467-0000031F69DAC80C_zps39e12197.jpg)
Secondly I welded in 3mm plate along the runners length.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/8DE287E5-A1A5-46A3-8895-65EE6851AE0E-1467-0000031F75410FE9_zps793cae75.jpg)
I did something similar to the plenum end with 3mm plate.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/C09B87C2-435E-427F-8E12-72F69AE1C51C-1467-0000031F805A315D_zpsb86e7d5f.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/02B28BE5-561B-4562-B3B4-9A9E04A1B0C4-1467-0000031F88BE6398_zps820a20e7.jpg)
Finally I will add a brace from the block to the manifold to triangulate the structure.
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Cripes Tom , the head itself will break before that does! ;D
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Cripes Tom , the head itself will break before that does! ;D
You said what I was thinking Tris! lol
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:D
Belt and braces! ;)
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The welding's coming along pretty well. No need to grind that down!
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I finished painting the inlet.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/C3B964DF-CE9E-4167-BE2D-2A98E947D514.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/C45FA413-0FD2-4A08-84E0-0C1E5F211265.jpg)
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Nice - not too many coats, I hope! :-)
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I had a few minutes spare at work, so I quickly made a model of the inlet manifold in Solidworks and hastily did a flow simulation. I will tidy up the model and go from there.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/8021DE9E-0451-436D-93A5-2F5B5517385A.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/475FFC1B-E088-4BD3-883E-6AE7622ED0C7.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/A3B8C6AF-1CAA-4D16-8C95-646257541C95.jpg)
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Yeh, like that!
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Added the curved runners and the length of hose from the filter. Here's a quick pic and a video.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/8B737D87-CDB0-4B26-BBA0-C7AFC606B71A.jpg)
http://youtu.be/0GYDRM7HAKg
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Out of interest, this is not mine but shows a design that has different and not quite such desirable flow.
http://youtu.be/GSsQsnI3INs
What I need to do to improve my CAD model simulation is make it dynamic by adding a firing order to the inlet runners and add cam overlap to give a true reflection of what happens when an engine runs, it does not just pump to all cylinders at the same time, this will however, take a fair bit of time and math. :-\
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:o wow impressive CFD modelling, what software are you using Tom and where did you learn CFD...at work or Uni?
I haven't forgotten about those dims by the way, just been flat out trying to get bits done on the car!
I've been doing a load of reading up trying to decide what to do aero wise on the racecar.....I want to go with front splitter/engine undertray as one piece then a flat floor by the way of aluminium sheet and then a rear diffuser.
I've removed the spare wheel well and will be having a centre exit exhaust so plenty of room for a nice big diffuser ;)
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realy nice job!!!
congratulation!
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excellent thread, cracking work!
Jon
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The story is interesting and can be used