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Author Topic: The Tatty Black & White Golf  (Read 527 times)

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Offline Tonyb

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The Tatty Black & White Golf
« on: August 10, 2012, 07:35:18 pm »
Here is my car. It's an ex welsh sports cars and Euro Saloons/slick 50 circuit car hence it's 'tatty' appearance externally. Jason has been helping me for a few years with advice and support as the car has been developed. I reckon it's probably the most powerful 2.0 ltr N/A 8v Golf in the UK now.

This year we've fitted a new cylinder head with more porting and bigger valves. Otherwise the engine is the same as last year and that ended up at 217bhp after some development time on the rollers. Once I've sorted some gearbox gremlins we'll drop it back on the rollers and see we what we have.

My plan for this year now to do some testing and a track day or something this year. Carry out some aero and chassis mods over the winter and have a go at The Welsh Hillclimb and Sprint Championship (that we won last year) or maybe the Midland version.

I'll not bore you with too much detail but if your interested in anything specific drop me a question and I'll fill in the gaps  :)



Interior



Engine bay



Proper (8v) engine  :)



Front suspension set up



JMR full race cylinder head



Not your standard MK1 front end!



Well that gives you an idea about the car and you can probably tell I enjoy developing components and adapting things as much as driving it :D

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Offline dumma

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2012, 08:02:07 pm »
Damn. Lots of special bits in there! I'm guessing the leda coilovers have a relatively short body? I always thought with solid top mounts you get very little travel?

Offline Robin_16v

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2012, 12:28:52 am »
Nice car!! What gear ratio and final drive are you running?

i read some where next season there will be a 1.8 16v engine?

Offline JMR

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2012, 05:08:43 pm »
1.8 16v!...don't tell him that!...lol!!

Offline Robin_16v

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2012, 06:32:39 pm »
fsi^^  :D

Offline JMR

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2012, 08:51:56 pm »
NOW he'll be yr friend!...lol  ;D

Offline Tonyb

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 05:21:44 pm »
Thanks Guys.

As far as I am aware the Leda's are std height. I run short springs plus they are quite hard and the wheels don't move up and down that much! It never bottoms out and I use quite a bit of kurb at some events, has very short bump stops though! The rear coilovers are custom built rose jointed Gaz ones that are check stopped very short and again have very little movement.

The gear box is an early FM gear case with 90mm flanges and shafts, modified here and there for pick up points. speedo drive removed and a magnet sensor on one of the flanges. Some of the internal  bits and pieces have been upgraded to later parts for ease of rebuilding or just because they are better. The current gear kit is a Remano Bacci VWMS syncro gear set. semi helical first and second with straight cut third, fourth and fifth. The final drive is a 4.47. It has a Gripper diff with tarmac ramps and some preload. Helix clutch set. Lightened fly wheel. That said 2nd gear on the main shaft failed the first time I used it so it's back at Bacci at the moment so they can report back. 020's are on the limit with the sort of power that the car puts out but it failed a bit to easy.

My plan is to build a bespoke engine based around an FSi cylinder head, like the BTCC cars. I have to use a std Golf block due to the rules. It will be probably be 2.0ltr though, still planning and researching that one at the moment. May build a crossflow 8v as an intermediate engine as many of the parts are interchangeable, depends on what BHP this one gives when I test it. Reckon a crossflow is worth another 5>8% power over the non cross flow so we'll see.

Not interested in an ABF, doesn't do anything for me. Not enough extra power over the 8v for the cost (at this level) better to start with a more modern and better cylinder head, you'll get more power fro the same outlay (sort of) in my opinion.

Offline RobT

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2012, 07:43:15 am »
Great developments Tony.

Will be interesting to hear how you get on with the fsi as there are some pretty big issues to solve to get big power from one of these.
2008 Audi A6 2.0TDI S-Line
2004 Audi A4 Avant 1.8T Quattro S-Line
1996 Seat Ibiza 16V F1.5 Race car

Offline Tonyb

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2012, 02:36:26 pm »
Thanks Rob,

The FSi project is just the head set up bolted to a 1.8 block. It's far from as simple as with an ABF head but the head has more potential than an ABF or a 20v head, they are good for around 280>290bhp on std valve sizes I believe. I met Hugo last week while he was over from Belgium and he had a boot full of S2000 FSi heads and parts, apparently they can go to 320bhp

The S2000 head was very nice as you would imagine, Hugo tells me that head produced 295bhp in the spec I saw, this one did have bigger valves than std, but not much. The chambers were taken out to suit an 85mm bore, running shorter stroke cranks than std for revs I guess, but otherwise fairly standard. Nicely ported with lots of subtle mods here and there. He also had a few sets of cams and cam gear and lots of info about cam and valve train design/mods. The FSi uses a rocker system like many bikes that lets the head remain compact and also lets you keep a shallow valve angle. He had another setup with him that used a modified hydro set up, std valves and some special cams/springs etc with steep ramp angles but only about 11mm of lift that was aimed at around 290bhp but at a lower RPM with more torque. There are a few tricks to get the valves to clear with radical cams that was interesting to see - better to see it done that wait to find out when doing it yourself!! Hugo was telling me that when he spoke to Lehmann they didn't rate the 20v, the ABF is now not really supported as it's too old and the future if the FSi which they did seem to like - good enough for me.

Biggest problems are piston/rod combination to suit the DX block and getting the cam and crank sprockets to line up. I'd be looking for around 280bhp with a good spread of power to suit both hills and sprints with about 8500 rpm max to use as many std parts as possible.

I'd ditch the FSi set up and go to ITB's. I've got heads and blocks here ready to strip and start working out what is required by mocking up the engine. I've got a set of forged 13:1 Hayabusa pistons here that I wanted to try as the bore and pin combination is right but the crown isn't quite right, shame. Anyway I'm starting that over the winter, it's going to be a longer term project that one, cost and time!! Not something with much commercial potential as it's just to much work to be viable and who would want one, however for what we do I think it's the way to go. Can't run an 020 with that though!!

Offline Tav

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2012, 08:43:58 pm »
Just great, I like a little 8v inspiration.  The rocker cover certainly makes it look like it means business!

Offline Tim Moll

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 12:26:39 pm »
Congratulations to Tony for being 'unofficially' the quickest car yesterday round Curby....8v wins the day again  ;D

Offline Tonyb

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2012, 06:59:42 pm »
Thanks Tim, as Rob said "I won't here the last of this, will I?"  8v's, how quaint! :D

I really enjoyed, as I reckon Rob did. We are both racers and we thought each others car might be similar in overall performance and whilst we weren't out there just to race it would always of interest.

We had a couple of runs in the morning and I think we both thought that our runs were pretty poor, you always do! We both wandered up to the timing booth after lunch (against orders) just to have a quick look, as you do  ::) The times weren't too shabby and we were about 0.06 seconds apart! Game on!! Rob's best tyres went on........ Time to concentrate, tyre warming, weaving on the out run etc. (well I did anyway!)

It was a shame that the times weren't there after each run as that would have made it even more fun (to Rob and I anyway) but to be fair to everyone else it wasn't a race day so we didn't want it to be too serious, and it was really fun. Everyone seemed interested how the demo cars did at the end and I think it added something to the day.


Offline JMR

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2012, 10:12:25 pm »
Well done Tony!...Im both pleased and proud of you for flying the "8v" JMR flag!

Im going to offer a discount for 16v owners for a conversion that consists of some machined down pistons and a race head for those that want to "upgrade" to 8v power!

I'll get your conversion kit ready first Rob as a special favour! ....lol!

Well done to all who took part on the day...glad you all had a good time.

Offline RobT

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2012, 08:04:05 pm »
I was waiting for this....

Yep, a good time was had by all, nice to have a run at Curby again. Tony did a cracking job and i was very impressed with his motor. Very well developed and really a lot more like a modprod car than mine is. What does it weigh?

Before i take you up on your 8v conversion, we'll see how things go on a big track when i can get out of 3rd gear  ;)

Lets not kid ourselves......he would have gone even faster with a 16v.

But credit where credits due, big well done to Tony.

Cheers

Rob

2008 Audi A6 2.0TDI S-Line
2004 Audi A4 Avant 1.8T Quattro S-Line
1996 Seat Ibiza 16V F1.5 Race car

Offline JMR

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Re: The Tatty Black & White Golf
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2012, 09:47:11 am »
Big track. .Done! 8)

There is a weight advantage with the Mk1 for sure, but a power disadvantage to go with it...tho with less weight it could suit the tighter course better...tho Tony has beaten some strong running 16v times (230hp 205) on long tracks in the past on his old spec...looking forward to the challenge as always.

We've currently got more 16v powered cars in the workshop (3 v's 2) so will be trying to get them up to 8v performance levels soon too!....one of which Im staying tight lipped about... ;)

 

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