Photobucket


+- +-

+-User

Author Topic: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets  (Read 446 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tonyb

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • Welcome to the JMR forum.
  • Location: Ammanford
    • View Profile
Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
« on: August 10, 2012, 09:19:31 pm »
Here are two dyno sheets for the engine in my car, figures at the wheels plus a pic of the car on the rollers at Vince Mosleys in Llandeilo (my local RR).

The first is sheet, first plot is with a full race pack D+ TSR head, twin 45's mapped ignition, 4 branch and a Schrick 304 cam, std VW pistons. The second plot is with a JMR developed version of the TSR head, Spiess F3 throttle bodies, mapped ignition and fuel, 4 branch and a Schrick 320 cam, Wiseco forged pistons.

The second sheet is the same spec engine but with about 200 miles on it and a few hrs of the rollers with adjustments to the cam, ignition and fuel  ;D. 8v's can make power despite what people say.





Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Offline Robin_16v

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
  • Welcome to the JMR forum.
    • View Profile
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2012, 12:23:56 am »
i love this engine ;D

Offline Tonyb

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • Welcome to the JMR forum.
  • Location: Ammanford
    • View Profile
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2012, 08:16:10 pm »
Here we go, dirty washing in public and all that  ;)

The car has been up to Vince Mosley's rolling road in Llandeilo for a bit of testing etc. Vince has up dated his whole set up and has computerised the road plus added a weather station to correct the data for all sorts of atmospheric variations.

Between Jason and I we have made some changes to the engine earlier this year. I added a different exhaust manifold to suit the chassis mods based on a Miltek 4:1 system. Broadly similar to the heavily modified Ashley I ran before and agian modifed to suit the head which has some big holes in it! The head was modified by Jason with the valves up from 40.5mm to 42mm and additional porting to match. Having driven it a few times it felt well good but with 750kgs and over 200bhp it was allways going to feel lively :D. It felt a bit flatter low down but picked up nicely. having seen the first plot it was clear that it was flat bottom and and then picked up strongly higher up.

Due to the changes to the rolling road the data this year will be different to the un corrected data from last year although we have the uncorrected data available as well. We spent a while checking and adjusting fuel and ignition maps to see what effect they had. There didn't seem to be many changes required other than at the bottom end, up to 3000rpm where it was down around 15bhp on where it should have been.

Generally a disappointing day as we started off down on power with a big hole around 4500rpm. After an hour or so we had the blue map. It just didn't really want to make peak power. Ok it was running to 8000rpm and still holding power but it wasn't really peaking as you would expect around 7k or so.



We then played with the cam timing. We tried retarding it a degree but this made it worse so we then advanced it and whilst it still didn't want to peak we added a dgerre or two at a time and we eventually ended up with the green trace. This is the opposite to what we did last year to gain power, we are essentially back where we started with last years engine when we first put it on the rolling road.

Analysing what we have got and comparing to the last plots uncorrected figures we have 183bhp max at the wheels (176bhp corrected). This years figs were taken in 5th gear and I'm sure last years were taken in 4th, based on that and just for a like for like comparison we would have about 219bhp at the crank. So like for like about the same but we should have more that that, I would have thought we were 4 or 5 bhp short of what I would have expected on that basis.

Going back to corrected bhp we have around 170+ bhp at the wheels from 5500rpm to over 7500rpm in a very linear form, with a slight peak at 6000rpm where we have the 176bhp, which is around 206bhp at the crank so not too shabby for an 8v but not what I had expected.

There is 10 or 15 bhp in there somewhere but where?

Whilst a little disapointing on the day it is now quite interesting to find out where the power is. After a couple of hours on the rolling road everything was overheating, petrol vaporising etc so we gave up.

Jason is convinced much of it is cam timing, I don't think it's that simple. I think the obvious culprit is the exhaust manifold, whilst very similar I've an idea the primaries were a few mm smaller that the Ashley. It's all ok in side as I cut it up to check and tidy it up. Maybe the valve dia increase has in some way affercted the induction length as well? I need to get some data over to Jason to have a look at and whilst I won't put all the answers up here I'll give you some clues what we do ;) Once we have list together I'll record where we are settings wise, do some checks and then re set it up and we'll run it up again and see if we can find the rest of the power.




Offline JMR

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 325
  • Welcome to the JMR forum.
  • Location: Plymouth / Saltash-Cornwall
    • View Profile
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2012, 09:59:02 am »
We'll get there Mr B....the requirements will have changed with the extra airflow through the head so induction & exhaust length's will be fussier. It's at the power level now where correct primary size's will work better & the overall tract length needs adjusting to drag the top end back...there's more there before you go and do something drastic like buy a 16v!  ;D

Offline Stooza

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Location: West Sussex
    • View Profile
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2012, 12:34:22 pm »

...there's more there before you go and do something drastic like buy a 16v! 

Cheeky git lol




Mk2 2.0 16v GTi (built for track day fun)
Mk3 16v GTi (standard)
1970 1915cc type 1 beetle (rebuild on hold)

Offline Tonyb

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • Welcome to the JMR forum.
  • Location: Ammanford
    • View Profile
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2013, 08:30:08 pm »
Not updated anything in here for a while. Been busy working and racing and have struggled to do much at all online.

Following on from the failure of last year on the rolling road we re grouped and made a few changes and then returned to Vince Mosleys rolling road and after a days playing around we had the green tace below.

The reason for starting at 5k is that we were struggling against the heat issues that the rear exhausts and induction system create. Vince thought if we start at 5k and run up quickly before the heat starts killing the power at the top end we might get a truer reading, seemed to work. As ever the car was on the edge of incineration for much of the time, lots of smoke, heat and the smell of burning.



These figs are wheel BHP and the result at the crank equates to 233bhp @ 7250rpm uncorrecrted and when corrected for temp/humidity/altitude etc it still equates to 224bhp at the crank, still quite handy for a non crossflow 8v!

The chnages made included shortened the trumpets (as much as possible with the Spiess F3 induction system), a set of custom Magnacore leads made, new plugs, Fresh petrol plus cam timing, ignition and fuel changes. Also added an electric water pump - every little helps!

Jason recently drove the car at Wiscombe hillclimb and whilst we had a few handling issues on the day I think Jason was suitably impressed with the engine, if not the drivability of the chassis on the day. So much so that he claimed more power was not required - not what you normally expect to hear when talking about an 8v Golf engine! It always amazes me how much grunt these engines produce when correctly put together, so much more than the sum of the parts.

Offline Smudge

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2013, 09:51:32 pm »
Great to read about this Tony. Your engine certainly is very desirably and has made me often dream about a tasty 8v lump.  :P
See my MK2 Golf 16v in the members section.


Offline GEL

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • Welcome to the JMR forum.
  • Location: Doha
    • View Profile
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2013, 12:18:20 am »
Hi Tony ... had wondered what that `hot spot` over Llandeilo was  ;) ;D

Great work by all !

No changes for next season then ?
Mk1 Golf GTI 16v
Alpina B10 V8 Touring
Audi S4 Avant V6 quattro

Offline JMR

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 325
  • Welcome to the JMR forum.
  • Location: Plymouth / Saltash-Cornwall
    • View Profile
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2013, 11:21:34 pm »
Yep....tracking! ::)  :D

There's plenty of power, and if all of it could be used most of the time it would be ballistic!

I've recently parked the next phase on the workbench...and ran out of fingers counting valves!  ;D....but we have demons to exercise first eh Tony!  8)....Wiscombe Park 2014....I've booked a sunny day for us!

 

+-Recent Topics

JMR – Customer Cars